[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the High Earning Coaches podcast, where we talk all about how to market and sell coaching in a way that feels good to you. Each week we’ll share conversations about what’s working now in the coaching world to market and sell coaching so that you too can become a high earning coach. I’m your host, Ashley Jangro.

[00:00:22] Today we are here with Judith. Judith is a really good friend of mine, and she’s also a successful coach as an image consultant and personal stylist. So today we’re going to learn how did she do it?

[00:00:36] So Judith, as you know the whole reason I do these interviews is so that you, the listeners as coaches can get some insight into the vast number of ways that you can build a coaching business.

[00:00:49] So what I’ll do is I interviewed Judith today and ask her a bunch of questions. I’ll reverse engineer her methods, how she built her coaching business so that you can pick up some [00:01:00] strategies to create that same kind of success in your own coaching business. So if you would like to brainstorm which of these various ways that I’ve talked to different coaches about.

[00:01:09] Um, which might best fit your coaching business. You can reach out to me by going to talkwithashley. com and book a time and we’ll chat. So Judith, thank you so much for joining us today. I’m really excited to speak with you. Thank you

[00:01:21] for

[00:01:21] Judith: having me. Hello people.

[00:01:24] Ashley: I can’t wait to hear your story because before you were a coach, you want to tell us what you used to do.

[00:01:30] Judith: Yes. Before I was a coach in the before time, I was a lawyer. I was a litigator. I did workers compensation defense and I represented government entities and large corporations that acted almost like government entities in certain ways.

[00:01:46] And that’s what I did. I

[00:01:49] Ashley: find that to be so incredibly fascinating. So I’d love to hear from you just kind of an overview, how you got started, what, how did you become a

[00:01:55] Judith: coach? It’s a winding road. I [00:02:00] originally went to school to be a fashion designer, and then got some weird feedback from a professor who was well meaning, and then I was like, oh, this is going to be really hard, and people are going to be critiquing me all the time.

[00:02:10] I should just go be a lawyer. That’ll be easier, which is It’s insane. Like, I say that out loud now and I’m like, oh, cutie little 20 something year old you was a psycho, apparently. So, and it’s funny because I went on to be a kind of lawyer that loves to be hated. It’s sort of odd, the kind of law I went into, but here, there I found myself.

[00:02:31] Then I went to law school. I had some really difficult cases and when I was going through some difficult cases I had a client who had been admonished to get a job and she said, I’m going to go be a life coach and I was like, that’s not a real thing, it’s not a real job, you can’t, that’s a no, I’m going to tell you no because the judge is going to say no and that’s not a real thing and you know, and she was like, no, it’s a real thing.

[00:02:52] I remember having this really funny conversation with her in the hallway outside of a trial. I’m like, no, that’s not a real thing. She’s like, look it up, Judith. [00:03:00] I So I think because I had so much, like, incredulity, like, rolling, like, this is not real. I researched it on Pinterest, which I think says something about my freedom of mind, about how silly I thought this was.

[00:03:10] So I did a Pinterest search for life coach podcast, like, okay, well, if it’s real and it has to be podcasts about it, again, I questioned some of my thought process during this time. And this, my coach at the time, her face popped up. She was not my coach yet. She was soon to be my coach. Her face popped up and then she had a podcast.

[00:03:27] So I was like, Oh. Okay, well I guess I’ll be grudgingly listen to this podcast so I can debunk everything they’re saying because this is not a real thing. And I did a lot of commuting back in the day, so I had a lot of time to listen to podcasts. And she said, your thoughts create your feelings. And I was like, fuck that.

[00:03:46] No, they don’t. That’s not true. And I went to court and I was asking all the attorneys and they’re like, no, that kind of makes sense. Like, that actually sounds right. Like guys, you’re supposed to be on my side.

[00:03:59] Ashley: You’re like, no, [00:04:00] this is not right. Life coaching is not real and your thoughts do not create your feelings.

[00:04:04] Okay.

[00:04:04] Judith: Right. Right. And then I, she had a special, it’s cause I listened a lot. I mean, I felt she was in my ear basically. Yes. Every single day for several months, and she made an offer for like a small group program and I thought, oh, well, she can help me because life coaching is a real

[00:04:22] Ashley: thing. So she was offering to coach, not to teach you to become a coach.

[00:04:28] Judith: Right. At this time, I had no interest in coaching. I in becoming a coach. And even years later, she did become my coach. I did do the small group program. I told her, I said, I have no interest in becoming a coach. I was very sassy about it at the time too. Now that coaching was a real thing, I just didn’t want to become one of them.

[00:04:41] Right. You just wanted to be coached. I just want to be coached. Okay. I said, I told her, I, you know, whatever you do in your certification program, I think is amazing, but I don’t want to learn it from that perspective. I just want to learn it as a lay person. And she created a special offer just because I asked to teach the tools without.

[00:04:58] The certification part. [00:05:00] And then later on, I decided, Oh, well, you know, probably should become certified

[00:05:04] Ashley: actually, and that is, I’m guessing that’s because you were using it in your own life and you were like, Oh, this actually works. Oh,

[00:05:12] Judith: this actually works. And I met along the way, this weird winding journey, I met.

[00:05:18] Carl Lone Theil, who is a former attorney, I mean, we’re talking about like, Yale undergrad, Harvard graduate for law school. And she was like, you could just make stuff up. We can make up a profession, all professions are made up, including being a lawyer, which I was like, She’s like, you could just make stuff up, who would you like to help, and how would you like to help them?

[00:05:38] And that really stuck with me, and I almost quite didn’t believe it, because about a year before that, I had Um, Decided to transition from family law, I used to do complex family law litigation. That’s a whole other story. And to something that felt calmer. Again, this is really funny. And I ended up in workers compensation defense doing [00:06:00] catastrophic claims because that was calmer.

[00:06:01] Ashley: It’s so much calmer and easier. Being a lawyer is easier. Okay. Oh, it’s

[00:06:05] Judith: easier. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a theme here. Yes. What was so interesting is I went to Coachella with a friend. She’s the personal assistant to a famous artist. So I got to go backstage at Coachella and we were walking around and it was really surreal.

[00:06:17] And she was like, what do you want to do? Like, what’s your next step? And I was like, Oh, I was just, you know, blah, blah, blah. She’s like, no,

[00:06:23] Ashley: what do you really want to do? Like want to, not what are you going to do, but what do you want to do? Okay.

[00:06:28] Judith: And my friend Maz is an incredible woman. And she just, and I was driving home from Coachella.

[00:06:33] It was like, I don’t know, 2am and I’m like blaring music. And I’m like, pray crying, you know, like you’re And I was like, God, just show me there’s a way that I can work with really incredible, intelligent women and help them and being encouraging to them. One of the things that’s always on my heart is like, help me to trade beauty for ashes, which if you know what that scripture is, it has a lot of meaning.

[00:06:57] So help me to trade beauty for ashes, but also help [00:07:00] me to do it with really intelligent women, people I’d want to spend a lot of time with, how do I encourage them and talk about style stuff and still be really smart. So if we could just make a way to make that happen, that would be awesome. Okay. Thanks.

[00:07:15] Bye.

[00:07:18] Ashley: And then you have this voice in your ear. That’s like, you can just make stuff up. You want to help. You can just do that. So what did you, at this point we’re certified as a

[00:07:25] Judith: coach. What’d you do? I decided to make a weird baby. Like, okay, so I’m going to take the style stuff. Okay, we’ll take that. We’ll drop it in the container.

[00:07:35] And I want to work with really smart cookies, as I like to say. So we’ll drop the smart cookie nerds. Okay, smart cookie curvy nerds. Okay, we’ll drop that in. Okay. And I want to encourage them. Okay, and then we created this funny little baby called Style School at the time it later on became Style Masterclass and now I have Style Masterclass and Modern Charm School, but it was born of this [00:08:00] crying, praying in the middle of the night and then someone coming to my ear and, you know, thank God for coaches.

[00:08:06] I think sometimes this is where they can come in at such crucial moments in a client’s life and say, Hey, did you even know this was possible? I love

[00:08:14] Ashley: that. You know, whenever I am selling a coaching program, because I do a lot of that, I always start out with this. Here’s the first thing we’re going to do with you is help you imagine what’s possible and begin to see it as a possibility.

[00:08:26] And I don’t know if people know how huge that statement is because when we’re in our own heads, we can’t even imagine what else is out there.

[00:08:35] Judith: Oh, I couldn’t even like, if she had just said to me, Oh, one day you’re going to have a style program where you shop for people and you help them with body image and self confidence, and they’re all going to be really smart, intelligent women.

[00:08:50] Almost like the curvy nerds that you had envisioned. Like, guess what? It’s going to, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t like shut

[00:08:56] Ashley: up. That’s my dream. That can’t actually possible. I love it. [00:09:00] So you created this weird bait. It’s called style school. What did you do? Did you just start talking about it online? What were your first steps?

[00:09:08] Judith: Okay. So coaches, I love y’all. And I need you to hear this part of the story because it’s super important. I chickened out. Oh, okay. So I created it with Cara. So Cara and I have this funny story that we like love to share now. At the time I was like, oh, that’s so painful. But I fired her. So if you know, if any of you know who Cara Lone Dial is, that’s one of the funniest things you’ll ever hear anyone say.

[00:09:29] I panicked, completely fucking panicked. I was like, we have this whole program laid out. We’re ready to launch. I mean, I was ready to go. I had workbooks, everything, website, like everything was ready to go. And I freaked out. Now, granted, I had some personal stuff happen at the same time. But I didn’t, I couldn’t do both.

[00:09:46] I couldn’t wrap my arms around it being possible. It was just too much. So I shut it down. It’s like, forget it. I fired, I found the email the other day and I was like debating. I was like, I didn’t actually fire you. She’s like, no, you did. And then I found the email and I was like, Oh my [00:10:00] God, no, I totally did.

[00:10:01] I fired you. Here’s a few lessons from this. Number one, even if clients fire you, they can come back and be your friend and still work with you and work for you. Cara and I. A great relationship. I have coached with her sense. I have coached for her son. So please don’t make it the end of the world of a client kind of freaks out on you because they’re growing faster than a nervous system is ready for friends.

[00:10:23] Please don’t

[00:10:24] Ashley: say that again because they are growing faster than their nervous system was ready for it. That is so

[00:10:29] Judith: good. Like I was, my, there was, my thoughts were there, the work was done and my nervous system was like, no, I can’t handle it down, sister.

[00:10:40] Ashley: I mean, for those of you coaches that are listening right now, I would love to hear from you in the chat right now, because I wonder if this has happened to you where you’ve had a client that’s like, Nope, not this isn’t working for me or for whatever words they use, they fire you and how that’s felt.

[00:10:54] And if this hits you hard, where Judith is saying. Know that it’s [00:11:00] about them. There’s something going on with them. It’s not necessarily about you. I think that’s really great advice. Okay. So you fired her. You didn’t do it. Then what happened?

[00:11:10] Judith: And then I saw her. Let me see where I saw her like three months.

[00:11:14] No, like six months later, I saw her at six months later at a live event. And she was just so gentle and loving and like, so what have you decided? And like, there was no judgment, which I just testament to coaching. And I like, I know now that she had inner thoughts about it. She got coached about me, which was funnier in retrospect, but.

[00:11:34] At the time, she just held such a beautiful space for me and was like, what have you decided? Like, what have you figured out? And it was then that I was like, okay, now I’m ready. Like my nervous system had calmed down enough. I was ready to launch. I was ready to put myself out in the world. Like it took time.

[00:11:52] If I had like gone faster than I was really, truly ready. I don’t think I would have had what I have today. [00:12:00] It just, it would have been real messy, really

[00:12:02] Ashley: easily burnt out. You could have, yeah. I love that you’re sharing that about Cara, because it’s, I mean, imagine if she had been angry with you or hadn’t come and talk to you, or if she hadn’t gotten coached and hadn’t dealt with her own emotions around that, she could have just not spoken to you and life would be very different.

[00:12:17] Right.

[00:12:18] Judith: Right. Right. So it’s just an opportunity sometimes like to just. Hold on coach. Yeah. You’re a human too. You need to go get coached and loved on and you need to sort out your stuff so that you’re, when you come to your clients, you can hold space for them and love on them and then help them through whatever the hard time is or whatever they’re going

[00:12:37] Ashley: through.

[00:12:37] Thank goodness she did. Okay. So then you were ready to launch. So I was ready to launch.

[00:12:42] Judith: So I know a lot of people have opposite advice. They’re like, wait till you’ve made X amount, just launch a podcast. I did not follow that advice. I didn’t want to, I really wanted a podcast. And I had three episodes ready to go because my big chickening out, I was sitting on them.

[00:12:56] Like they were literally done, edited, ready to roll. And my [00:13:00] friends dared me and they said, if you don’t, this is so funny now, if you don’t push publish, we’re going to publicly shame you on Instagram and you’ll hold up a sign saying I’m a chicken and won’t publish my podcast. And I was obviously not your

[00:13:14] Ashley: coaches.

[00:13:15] These are your friends now.

[00:13:17] Judith: Not my coaches, my friends. And I was so terrified of posting on Instagram that that seems scarier to me.

[00:13:24] Ashley: Then publishing your podcasts, good friends. That’s

[00:13:28] Judith: amazing. Two seconds, literally had to push a button. All of y’all. Most of what you’re afraid of is a button push. Just, please just remember, just remember to push the button.

[00:13:37] Oh,

[00:13:38] Ashley: so good. Okay. So you have these three podcasts. So you started talking about this, the style school.

[00:13:43] Judith: And what was so interesting at that point in time is the podcast was very storytelling driven and that it was just fun to produce. It was fun to create, actually let it be a fun thing and not this like harrowing [00:14:00] experience.

[00:14:01] And. Now we’re at 259 episodes or something. And that doesn’t happen overnight. It didn’t, right. Please go back and like, if you scroll, scroll, you’ll see the beginnings of my Instagram, which were terrible posts and the branding’s all over the place. Like if you follow the history of the development of my brand over time.

[00:14:22] So sometimes I think it helps us to see like where a coach. Started from scrolling to that bottom of that page so you can get a full picture of like, I did it janky, I did it breathy, I did it weird, and I let it be so I could iterate over time. And I’m still iterating. I have plans through February of next year and how I’m gonna fix shit in my business.

[00:14:43] Ashley: I can’t wait to go back and scroll through your old Instagram posts because I think that’s so easy to do. Like once we become a coach, we look at someone who has been a coach for several years and we’re like, Oh, I’m not there yet. And then we don’t post anything. Right. Or we don’t share anything or we [00:15:00] don’t put ourselves out there and then we’ll never have the opportunity to get there.

[00:15:04] So I love this. Okay. So you opened up the style school. What happened? How many people joined? How did that go? Zero. Oh, I’m so glad that’s your story. Tell me about

[00:15:16] Judith: it. Zero. Cause I didn’t like charging people. I was terrified to charge people money. So I spent a whole year. And I think it’s again, we have to make sure we tell the truth about the whole story.

[00:15:27] When we talk about our coaching businesses, our services in general for a year, I made no money because I literally would not send people links to pay me money. What

[00:15:37] Ashley: came up for you when someone was like, Oh, I absolutely want to do that. What happened?

[00:15:42] Judith: Like, oh, okay, well, you know what, let me, let’s just get on a call and then like, let’s see how much we can get done in an hour for free.

[00:15:47] Oh,

[00:15:48] Ashley: wow. That’s amazing. Okay. So you served a lot of people for free.

[00:15:53] Judith: A lot of people for free. And I would talk about all these clients that I have because technically I was like, I have a lot of clients. [00:16:00] I just wasn’t telling anybody the truth that they were all free because I was scared to charge people money.

[00:16:05] Oh, that would get weird. I mean, that would get real weird. People are like, well, just send me the link.

[00:16:12] Yeah. I mean,

[00:16:12] Ashley: maybe we could just do it for free. Okay. Which

[00:16:15] Judith: I’m sure you see this as a sales coach, right? Like you help people with sales and you sell in a lot of people’s programs. You teach people how to sell. You probably hear the weird squeakiness too, right? Like you see

[00:16:25] Ashley: it. Absolutely. And it’s actually why I end up selling for other people because, and I train coaches to use their coaching skills to sell for other coaches because people say all the time, I can’t sell myself.

[00:16:37] I could sell somebody else’s program all day. In fact, I hear that about your program. I could sell Judas program all day, but if it comes to selling myself, I can’t do that. So it’s really interesting. And so, I mean, we spend a lot of time in life coach closers, just learning to think about selling as serving selling.

[00:16:53] You know, the actual like act of it is similar to coaching, but like, it’s, we’re serving people. So it takes a lot of brain [00:17:00] retraining to realize, you know, how you are helping someone choose themselves and choose to transform by selling them something. So. I think that’s really

[00:17:10] Judith: fascinating. It’s a huge mindset shift because as a lawyer, we’re not allowed to solicit.

[00:17:13] So I mean, it’s just, it’s a no, you don’t go selling anything. You just go be a badass. People will see you tell their friends and you will get clients, which is always how I operated. Even when I was a solo practitioner, I was an attorney in my, as a baby attorney to when I was in big law as a managing partner, like.

[00:17:31] Just go do good work. People talk to their friends and then they’ll say, Oh, that case is horrible and awful. It’s going to take years to close. Call Judith. So like, that’s what I was relying on. That was your marketing. That was my marketing. I’ll just go be awesome at this. Like I meant everything else I do.

[00:17:47] And then I don’t have to sell anybody. That’s not how it works. This is not how it works in the coaching realm. So I would get real weird and be real

[00:17:53] Ashley: creepy. I mean, especially if you have not charged anyone, they’re not going to say go. [00:18:00] Work with Judith. Here’s how much she costs. They’re going to be like, well, she’ll work with you for free.

[00:18:03] Right? So that’s why we need

[00:18:05] Judith: an Ashley. If y’all okay, seriously, if you get weird y’all, and you’re like, no, this about yourself. That’s why we have Ashley’s in the world. And we go to Ashley and we say, Hey, I’m a weirdo. I act weird when it comes to selling. Here’s all the weird shit I’m doing. And she can help you with it.

[00:18:21] Because there are certain skill sets that you’ll have, and there are certain ones that you won’t have as an entrepreneur. You’re not expected to know all of them. That’s why we have coaches like Ashley. Thank you for that plug.

[00:18:30] Ashley: I appreciate it. I love that you think that you get weird about it, but it’s, I mean, it makes so much sense because that’s how you worked up until then.

[00:18:37] So then what happened? What, walk me through where you went from charging nothing to when you finally started charging.

[00:18:44] Judith: So I had coach friends to the rescue this time. I was at a writing retreat with my mentor at the time and I tend to hold court. I don’t mean to do this, it just sort of naturally happens.

[00:18:54] Humans will gather around me and I’ll start telling them all the things and then I’m looking down people’s [00:19:00] blouses eventually and they’re like, look at my bra. I’m like, that’s wrong, here’s what we need to fix. Like I can create instant connections. It’s a weird thing that I That’s different from a sales actually selling people.

[00:19:10] So I’m holding court and I’m like looking down all these people’s glasses. I’m talking about all these clients I had and my coach picked up on something and God bless her because this was a huge turning point. She goes. Are you charging any of these people? Like she had a, she had an intuitive hit and she followed it.

[00:19:26] And I was like, you’re like, I need to go to the bathroom. Walk out of the room right now. Like so uncomfortable. And I, I think I went high pitch squeaky actually. And I was like, she’s like, don’t you do that shit? Are you charging people? And I was like, no, she’s like, you don’t run a fucking fashion charity.

[00:19:46] And my closest like coaching friend was next to my mentor at the time. And she’s like, What the fuck, Judith? What the fuck? Right? Because I had kept it so secret. I was like, talking about my clients all the time. So people assumed. And that’s, [00:20:00] I mean, it’s a little bit of a lie that I was telling because I was so shamed about the fact that for a year I made I made Nothing.

[00:20:06] Ashley: Wow. Oh, I hope anyone in the chat right now that is listening who has continually served clients for free, which I always think that’s a great way to start, but if you’re still doing it after a year here, this here, that if you’re doing that in shame and not really admitting to people that it’s time speak up because you can get help with it.

[00:20:27] Judith: Yeah, and she helped me. She was like, what’s going on with you? So I told her what the product was. I told her about the program. It was a six week program. It was, I mean, the whole, it was beautifully laid out. Everything, the programs from day one was beautiful and ready and there to serve. So it was never a fulfillment problem.

[00:20:43] This is purely. A weird sales

[00:20:45] Ashley: problem. It was just something going on in your brain. It was here. It was all

[00:20:48] Judith: here. So she made me a deal. She said, okay, she thought I should charge. I forget what she told me to charge at the time. And I was like, hell no. She’s like, oh, okay. So the next she’s like, made me a deal.

[00:20:58] The next 10 [00:21:00] people you have to charge them. 597.

[00:21:02] Ashley: So 600 for this six week beautiful program. Okay. How does that

[00:21:07] Judith: feel to you? Huh? Okay. I was like, I was uncomfortable and I was sweaty, but I was like, my nervous system didn’t get so wrinkled that I couldn’t go follow through. I was like, okay, cool. And then she’s like, after that 997, then 1500, and then we’ll keep moving you up when you’re ready.

[00:21:24] And I was like, I couldn’t even conceive of that in

[00:21:26] Ashley: 1500. Yeah. You’re like, that will never happen, but okay. I can be with 600. Okay. So you start, you put the 597 price tag. What did you do?

[00:21:34] Judith: I, so I’ve got my first 10 clients at five 97. And do you remember how, what did you do? I kept going to places wherever they’re humans and holding court and telling them what I do and looking down their shirts and actually sending them links to pay me money.

[00:21:50] Ashley: Well, I feel like we should put a caveat here. If you are a life coach, do not copy Judith’s strategy. Exactly. Because if you go into public [00:22:00] and just start looking down people’s shirts, You may not end up with clients, now specific to Judith, who if you know anything about her, talks about getting rid of your janky underwear, then it’s okay.

[00:22:14] But unless you’re already talking about underwear, probably don’t use that

[00:22:17] Judith: strategy. Yes, please don’t do that. That’s a great caveat. But let’s, we extrapolate out the gems from that is if you’re super nervous y’all, and you don’t have a ton of, you know, ad spend to generate leads, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, go where your humans are, literally, and I know we bulk at that sometimes, I, And for certain reasons, or whoever’s advocating this form of marketing, but I do think there’s a lot of merit to it because I learned very quickly what people responded to what they didn’t respond to.

[00:22:49] I got to see in real time their reactions on their faces, and I got to learn what their objections were. So the more people I talked to, the more I could get a list of like, here’s all the things are kind of bulking out when I [00:23:00] mentioned the price and they’re like, well, what about this? Or what about that?

[00:23:03] So there’s value in doing it live. If you’re, I’m an extrovert, so it’s easy for me to hold court and gather a crowd that may not be you. So if you’re wired this way, please just take the gems out, talk to people, as many people as possible and offer them, you know, your actual program, give them a link to pay you money, make it easy for them to pay you money.

[00:23:24] Make it easy. I love

[00:23:26] Ashley: this so much. And I feel like this, you know, we hear a version, we’ve heard a version of this every single one of these shows I’ve done where it’s like, you just have to start talking to people and that can be anywhere. I mean, that can be at a barbecue. That can be at a book club. That can be at wherever you’re not going to go in and be weird and salesy.

[00:23:44] Right. But you can go in and just start telling people, yeah, this is what I do. I help people. I know how to help with that problem. You happen to look down their shirts and tell them that you could help them with a specific problem, but you’re going to hear things come up and your brain is going to go, I have the exact skills [00:24:00] to help with that.

[00:24:00] And then you just let people know.

[00:24:02] Judith: Yeah. And there were times where like, I would be talking about bras and undies in a crowd of women and somebody would say, well, I go commando. And I’m like, Oh, I got to talk to my peeps who go commando. Like, how do I help them have a better commando experience? Oh, I don’t wear a bra.

[00:24:16] Okay. Well, how do I help my peeps who go braless? So it

[00:24:20] Ashley: really helped you form your program to serve more individuals. That is so, so good. And I’ve watched this happen. Like every time I’ve been in public with you, you just start talking and you’re not trying to gear the conversation towards what you do, but you mentioned something little and it’s like a shush goes over the table.

[00:24:38] And we’re all like, what? Can you explain that again? And then like someone else starts listening and they’re like, wait, can you say that again? So you just freely serve, you freely give advice. And then how long did it take at our last dinner till someone pulled out their phone and signed up for your program at the

[00:24:56] Judith: table?

[00:24:57] Right, right. And I got a little weird then, right? [00:25:00] Like, this is not like, it doesn’t still happen. It still happens y’all. And I’m Multiple six figures three years in a row, and I still get a little weird and that’s okay. Totally. Okay, but

[00:25:12] Ashley: you did not say I’ll just give it to you for free. You know, I didn’t have them to sign up.

[00:25:16] That was

[00:25:16] Judith: amazing. Yeah. You know, this has just been a progression over time. So some of you are having pricing drama because you think you should start out at this price that so and so said or everyone tells you. Maybe scale back. Find a number that when you think about it, it feels good in your body. You can pause, you can check in.

[00:25:35] Like what does heart say? What does mind say? What does gut say? Start there and you’ll realize, and I realized after the first five clients, I had made a deal for 10 of those first five clients. I had undercharged grossly for what I do. And it made it easier to get to the new price because it was like, Oh fuck.

[00:25:52] Well, I said 10 and I’m one of those people. It’s like, I said, that was my word. So I went through 10 and I was very clear. I had to raise my prices. [00:26:00] By the time I got to number

[00:26:01] Ashley: 11. Oh, I love this so much because I think that this happens so often we put our, we get started and we’re like, well, everybody else prices at this, at this, this is what I’m told I should price at.

[00:26:12] And we priced it at that. And then maybe no one buys. I think so much of that has to do with our own nervous systems because we don’t feel comfortable with the price. So then we don’t tell as many people, we don’t feel great talking about it. And if we started at a price that felt good. We’d sell a lot and quickly scale, but it feels weird to start there when you think everyone else is saying you should start somewhere higher.

[00:26:34] So I love that advice. Thank you for sharing that. So you got to 10, you’re like, I need to raise my price. How, okay. You were going out and meeting people. At what point do you think, or do you, maybe this hasn’t even been the case yet, but do you feel like you started shifting to just marketing online as opposed to getting out and meeting people?

[00:26:52] Judith: Probably around once I had exhausted sort of that warm. Like, people are getting to know me. I’m showing up in public more. [00:27:00] That was probably about 20 folks had come through before. I was like, okay, well, I can’t keep going to conferences. It’s expensive to go to conferences to get clients. Especially at the price point that I was selling it.

[00:27:10] Like, it didn’t quite make a lot of sense. So, it was time to do a few things. And this is something I did early on. And I was terrified the whole time, y’all. So, I just want to I created a newsletter when I had 8 people on my email list. Amazing. Five of which were family members. Probably my mom three times repeated because my mom’s like my super fan.

[00:27:29] Like my mom’s in my membership. She’s all up in the mix. Like she’s coming to my live event. My mom’s like super fan. So I acted as if I had. 10, 000 people on my emails. I still don’t have 10, 000 people on my emails. I have a very small email list, but I treated them like they were platinum amazing partners with me on this journey from day one when there were eight of them.

[00:27:51] I still have one. Her name’s Rose. Shout out to Rose because Rose has been my girl since day one. Rose is in her seventies, lives in England. I have [00:28:00] never actually ever met Rose and Rose is one of my biggest fans because I treated her like she was so special from day one. So. Anytime I see her pop up, like in a webinar or zoom, I’m like, she’s in all my free shit.

[00:28:15] I can look, I can see every time she’s in the tag. She won’t buy from me ever. She can’t afford it for whatever reasons are, but I still love my Rose. Cause I would not be where I am if I wasn’t talking to Rose every time I go to talk.

[00:28:28] Ashley: I love that you said that so much. So I have, it’s one of my very first clients.

[00:28:31] Her name’s Monica. She’s probably here listening. If I’m Monica and Rose, but she was my super fan. And for Months as I was getting going and like putting myself out there uncomfortably, I just would talk to her. I would write my email to Monica. I would make my videos for Monica. Anytime I got in my head about like, Oh, here’s how someone could critique this.

[00:28:54] Or here’s how someone might question what I’m saying. I’m like, just talk to Monica. And it, you know, she got [00:29:00] my sense of humor. I didn’t have to over explain anything. She was just like, Oh, if I misunderstand something, I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt. Like she, it was so great. And I feel like that’s what helped me grow my confidence as I marketed online.

[00:29:13] Cause I was just

[00:29:13] Judith: talking to Monica. Yeah. So you all have a rose or Monica. And now that has expanded to, I have like. Lots

[00:29:21] Ashley: of

[00:29:21] Judith: roses. Lots of roses and thank God for each and every one of them because I think about them all the time. Like if I’m in my car, if I’m listening to something, if I’m looking at their posting something or I’m thinking about them all the time and what I create for them.

[00:29:40] Yeah. Sometimes I over create and I have to get coaching on stop creating so much content, but like, I think about them all the time.

[00:29:48] Ashley: Always have them on your mind. And I imagine that’s partially why you’ve become so successful because you really genuinely care about the people you’re serving. Yes.

[00:29:56] Judith: Very much

[00:29:57] Ashley: so.

[00:29:57] So you started putting yourself out there [00:30:00] online. What point did you hit where you felt like, okay, I’ve made it where, you know, you don’t have to like reinvent the wheel every month or every time you launch. Are you like, I’ll let you know

[00:30:10] Judith: when I get there. I don’t know that I feel that way. No, I will say there was probably two years ago.

[00:30:16] Okay. So two years ago, I, what Again, I got, I’m creating content like a mad woman and I actually got coaching on this and the coach Cara actually was like, stop creating fucking content and go make offers. I was like,

[00:30:31] Ashley: wow. Okay.

[00:30:33] Judith: I was buffering with like creating a lot of content, but I will say the beauty of this was I learned I was doing a different type of webinar every month for a year.

[00:30:41] I don’t recommend this y’all. It’s a terrible idea for so many reasons, but here’s the golden nuggets from it. I do think you should do a webinar a month when you’re first starting it. I think it’s super beneficial, even if you’re not talking to anybody. And there were times every person who runs an online business will tell you they were talking to a room of zero and hoping somebody would watch the [00:31:00] replay.

[00:31:00] That’s all of us. There’s no shame in that. So there was a lot of benefit to learning how to live launch and doing it spectacularly badly. So I would send out a few emails, come to a webinar. I thought it’s three emails. Certainly that’s enough. They’ll

[00:31:14] Ashley: come obviously. Yes,

[00:31:16] Judith: just three, just three. I sent out three.

[00:31:19] I did everything I think I could, right? You probably get this. I’ve done everything. No, you’ve never done everything. That’s totally a lie. So then I was like, okay, so I did, you know, three emails and a webinar to zero people. I was like, okay, so maybe I need more emails. Then I did it again, but I did a new topic because I love to create content.

[00:31:37] So then it was a new topic. And I sent out like five emails this time. And I did a few social posts cause, Oh, I totally didn’t do any posts last time. So

[00:31:45] Ashley: maybe that’ll be the thing. That’s everything though. Three emails and five social posts. That’s everything. Right. I did every,

[00:31:50] Judith: and then maybe I had three people show up and I was, I mean, I was delighted that there was.

[00:31:57] Also secretly hoping no one would show up. This is [00:32:00] true too. This happens. I

[00:32:01] Ashley: so know that feeling

[00:32:02] Judith: like maybe no one will come. Maybe nobody will come and then I can just like hang up the zoom call and then I’ll feel better and you won’t feel better and you’ll still do it anyway and it is but please no I’m saying all these things so you know that this is like.

[00:32:15] part of the process. And then every time I would just do something a little different. I would add some more emails. I would look at what emails did well, which totally fucking flopped. And my email list again, has always been tiny. When I made my first six figures, I only had an email list of 1800 people.

[00:32:33] So I think sometimes we hear these, you know, I have a hundred thousand on my list and

[00:32:38] Ashley: blah. You don’t need it. You can make money with that. It’s a different strategy and you don’t need

[00:32:43] Judith: it. And you don’t need it. There’s nuances to this. Whenever people throw these numbers around, I give you a number of 1, 700.

[00:32:50] Some of you are like, there’s no way it could get to 1, 700. And some of you are like, that’s it. So whatever your reaction is, just know that there’s nuance in all of this and everybody’s journey. Take the nugget. So I [00:33:00] think the biggest nugget here is I kept trying and I kept iterating. I do recommend that if you’re going to run a webinar a month, Run the same one at least three or four times before you switch like we don’t got to switch them like that I think it was a little kooky pants But it was super beneficial because I learned a lot in the process and I spelled I like failed spectacularly multiple times I also did really well and I got to 19 one on ones before I decided to move

[00:33:26] Ashley: to groups Okay.

[00:33:27] So tell me how you got those one on ones. Was it from the webinar? Was it later? How did that happen?

[00:33:32] Judith: It was lots of webinars over time, lots of one on one consults, lots of trying different types of challenges. So my most successful challenge that I ever ran was, actually there were two really successful challenges that I ran.

[00:33:46] And this is so niche specific, but it was what my clients needed at the time. This is why we’re always paying attention to our clients. So I did the big ask. Pun intended. Style challenge. Okay. Which got me like 10 [00:34:00] at once. 10 one on ones at once. I mean, it was an extremely successful three day challenge.

[00:34:04] So it was

[00:34:05] Ashley: three days. What was the goal of the challenge? To do what?

[00:34:09] Judith: To talk about, well, to get, to acknowledge and accept your ass. literally the size of your ass, the shape of your ass, the size and shape of your body. Now, and I used, it was crafts on purpose because it got attention. I got some funny giggles, but it was super effective in terms of introducing people to the idea of body image and how that translates to how we show up in our clothing and therefore how we show up to do our work in the world.

[00:34:36] So that was extremely successful. And it was a ghetto challenge. I look now, it’s like, are there some shit that I pulled that I was like, I would not do that again. That was hella ghetto looking. Like there was no replay page. I showed up like shiny and like hair, not really done. I was there. I was on my little Facebook live doing the thing.

[00:34:55] So, so you do not have to do all the bells and whistles to have [00:35:00] a successful, you know, ended up being like a five figure three day challenge. It was good. It was a hood ass version of that. Yeah. So just friends, please don’t wait till something’s perfect. Like go do the thing and sort yourself out. Then we did a style clarity challenge, which was much more polished because we learned a lot from running the hood, the hood ass version, three day challenges.

[00:35:24] Okay. This was a five day challenge and it had, we had a, oh my God, it was so much fun the first time we ran it. We had a beautiful replay page. We did a community challenge with a gift, a prize, and it was a community bra bust and panty toss. So literally we invited people to toss out as many panties as possible, as broad as possible, send in how many they tossed out.

[00:35:48] And then the person who tossed the most would get a gift card and like a. Special mug that we created and it was so much fun. So that was wild and amazing. And that was to fill the first [00:36:00] group.

[00:36:00] Ashley: Okay. So when you did the three day challenge, you got 10 one on ones with that 10 calls that then you had to convert.

[00:36:08] Oh, no, this is more

[00:36:08] Judith: like, yeah, let’s talk about conversion rate for console. Go. So I probably did like. 35 consult calls to get my conversion rate was not high because

[00:36:19] Ashley: I don’t. I mean, that’s like a third of them. That’s pretty great. It’s

[00:36:23] Judith: like a third of them, but I know that other people advocate having higher ones.

[00:36:26] So I just want to be real about what the numbers were. So I probably had like 35 consult calls to get to the 10 one on ones.

[00:36:34] Ashley: Okay. So the third day of your challenge, for example, you were like, hop on a call with me to what?

[00:36:42] Judith: To learn about style masterclass. Okay. Okay.

[00:36:44] Ashley: See if it’s a good fit for

[00:36:45] Judith: you. Okay.

[00:36:46] So the programs opening get on the style consults and I probably sold that I was going to give them like something free, like free advice. Cause I coach a lot on these calls. Yeah. There’s less selling, more coaching happening on these consults [00:37:00] back in the day. But that was. Probably what the pitch was at the time.

[00:37:04] Ashley: Okay. So then those were one on ones not group. How much were you charging for one on one coaching at that time?

[00:37:10] Judith: So this was a mistake on my part. So I’m going to just fully on this mistake. I had charged the same for one on one as I did group, which makes no sense. Don’t do this. Y’all, if you’re going to make the transition, make the transition, just own it.

[00:37:24] So everybody was being charged three K at the time. Okay.

[00:37:27] Ashley: So, I mean, that makes sense because then why would you do a group if you could have Judith one on one. Right. Yeah. Okay. So you had those three that you charged three, I mean, those 10 that you charge three K and then you moved into this five day challenge that fed them into a group where you were selling the group.

[00:37:44] So you spent, did you talk about your group throughout the five days? Did you wait till the last day? What did that look like?

[00:37:50] Judith: It was a mistake not to talk about it sooner. So we waited until I think day two to start introducing the, like seeding the idea. We started fully seeding it. And then [00:38:00] by day four, we had.

[00:38:01] Past one on one clients come on a live call with me to talk about their experience, which I highly recommend you do. Yeah. If you’re at that point in the game, I actually really recommend it because it’s better if they hear it from them specifically and see the different, you know, for my niche, the different body types, different professional backgrounds, how funny my clients are.

[00:38:21] They’re the funniest women. I adore them. They make me laugh hysterically. All the time. So, I mean, I’m totally obsessed with my clients if you can’t tell. So they, it was just fun to be in the room with them and then for everybody to see them be in the room and not just necessarily like to sell them on the thing, but just so you could see the community that you would belong to.

[00:38:41] Ashley: I love that. Okay. So then you, did you do one on one calls with those individuals as you sold them into the group program?

[00:38:49] Judith: So if I remember correctly, it was about half who bought straight to cart. And then we started, then we triggered an email sequence that said, Hey, if you didn’t buy, here’s a replay [00:39:00] for the blah, blah, blah.

[00:39:01] Last chance to watch the replays. We’re going to take the replays down at this date. Get on a consult, get on a consult. Everything I could do to get people. Then the whole call to action change to get on a one on one consult. Okay.

[00:39:13] Ashley: Oh, that’s so good. And then those converted into your first group program.

[00:39:17] Yeah. Your first. Group program that had people in it, the humans,

[00:39:21] Judith: there were humans, there were people in the room. Yeah, it was, you know,

[00:39:25] Ashley: what’s amazing me so much is you did not give

[00:39:28] Judith: up. No, I, there are times I’ve wanted to, then I’m like, I can tell me

[00:39:33] Ashley: about that. Tell me about a moment where you were like, I could just go back and be a lawyer.

[00:39:38] Judith: I had a launch last year that did not go well, really didn’t go well. And according to me, right. So I’m just, it turned out beautifully because although we only had three people in the room. I’m so glad these women got to meet each other. They’re, I mean, they’re incredible. They’re so smart. One of them is a judge.

[00:39:56] Two of them are different types of engineers. Like these are incredible [00:40:00] women and, but for this weird baby I created, they wouldn’t have met each other or spent time with each other and they’re just so lovely. So. You have to kind of factor that in sometimes when you think something’s failed or flopped to kind of step back and be like, wait a minute, hold up.

[00:40:17] I’m here in service of these humans. And what successes

[00:40:20] Ashley: came out of this?

[00:40:22] Judith: Yeah. Yeah. So, and we learned a lot from that launch. There were things we learned a lot. So there are definitely times where I’ve wanted to be like, I could close this shit down. Nobody will know that I’ve disappeared, which I think is so funny because that’s where I’m beyond that point.

[00:40:38] People would notice if I would definitely notice. Yeah. But fantasize about this sometimes, like, I could just go be a lawyer again. It’s easier. There’s a thought, right? That thought keeps popping. And it will always pop up for me in some form or fashion. But I recognize about this my, like, I know this about myself now.

[00:40:53] When I feel overwhelmed, or very tired, or depression rolls in, my brain is like, you could just go be a lawyer, it’ll be easier. [00:41:00]

[00:41:02] Ashley: What keeps you from doing it?

[00:41:05] Judith: My humans. I love my humans. I love my clients so much. Oh my god. No, seriously. Then I get on a coaching call and I remember like, oh, this is why I do what I do.

[00:41:13] Or I get on a group call with them and they’re like checking in with each other or loving on each other. Or, you know, you know, someone shares something on a group call and it’s like, Oh, me too. Thank you so much for raising your hand. And I get this, the still small voice kind of reminders on a regular basis that it’s not about you, Judith.

[00:41:33] It’s

[00:41:34] Ashley: about you. I feel like everything you’re saying is like reaching my heart. Right through it. Cause you know, I’m in the middle of a group program right now. And there are days where I’m like, this is not working. I can’t do this anymore. And then I get on the call with my humans and I’m like, I love this so much.

[00:41:52] Like, there’s no way I could do anything else. And I just keep going.

[00:41:57] Judith: And it’s important to pause and think, well, [00:42:00] what is actually not working? Because I love to speak in hyperbole sometimes myself. So I’m like, hold on. What do you think is actually not working here? And most of the time it’s. I feel.

[00:42:10] Ashley: Yep.

[00:42:11] It’s an emotion. Yes. I

[00:42:14] Judith: feel because I’m shitting myself. It should have gone differently. It should, there should be more. There should blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I make myself feel terrible. But when I really look at it, nothing bad has happened.

[00:42:26] Ashley: And I think about this so much because, you know, we always are told like practice gratitude and like practice, Thinking of what you’re grateful for and where the successes and spend time celebrating the successes.

[00:42:38] And it all starts to sound like, yes, I get it. We need to celebrate the successes. But then I’m like, Oh no, I actually do. Like this is actually important because then my brain gets retrained to prioritize those over what I’m seeing as failures, right?

[00:42:53] Judith: Yes. And that’s why, like, I had this funny moment. I spoke at an event.

[00:42:57] It was like several thousand people. And I mean, I got like [00:43:00] two standing ovations, which is like kind of crazy pants. I was like, calm your shit down, sit down people. And it was brilliant. It was amazing. And I got off and I still mingled with people. I’ve stayed out probably way later and was exhausted the next day.

[00:43:12] Literally, I was like, I want to be left alone. I don’t want to talk to another human, like I need a minute. And I’m an extrovert. Even I had hit a wall. So I put my air pods in on the plane. I’m like, I just want to be in a corner. I want to be left alone. And this little old lady sits next to me and she’s like, I’m nervous.

[00:43:28] And I’m like, Oh boy. So I’m like, don’t make eye contact. And she’s like, like she’s shaking. She’s shaking. You could see her. And the man next to her is like putting a book like this. And then she proceeds to tell us how she got sick on her last flight because she’s so scared. Oh no. I was just like, I swear, it was like clear as day.

[00:43:47] I heard a little voice in my head. I was like, it’s still not about you.

[00:43:53] Take off my AirPods. Hi ma’am. Are you okay? Oh, I’m scared. All right. Well, I’m here. I [00:44:00] coached her the whole flight about being scared. And mind you, I’m a terrible flyer, which is even funnier. I’m actually a very nervous flyer. Like I will clutch the seats. I’ll hold strangers hands. Like I am a very nervous flyer and I couldn’t be nervous because I couldn’t be nervous for

[00:44:13] Ashley: her.

[00:44:14] Yeah. So you had to be brave and bold. Oh, so good. I had to

[00:44:17] Judith: be brave and bold for her. And I had to be like, Oh, well, that’s a little turbulence. Totally normal. As we start to descend, it’s going to get a little worse. And you’re going to hear some weird noises. Nothing has gone wrong. Tell me about your grandchildren.

[00:44:27] What’s your name? I could not be afraid because I have a human right here who needs my help. And it’s not, it was just thinking

[00:44:38] Ashley: if you ever want to give up, you could totally be a flight attendant. Cause you just took a, you just put on your flight attendant voice and I’m like, Oh, you’d be so good. So this is so interesting to me because I very purposely probably wouldn’t do it if I was exhausted, but I’m very purposeful about not putting any headphones on or used to be anyway, on airplanes.

[00:44:55] I’ve met the most interesting people someday I’ll tell you the story of when I got proposed to, [00:45:00] but it was a long time ago, but I’ve

[00:45:01] Judith: gotten here more,

[00:45:03] Ashley: but I’ve gotten numerous clients from airplanes. I’ve And this is when I was doing general life coaching. And then when I was coaching teens and inevitably, you know, I was talking to a woman, tell me about your grandkids.

[00:45:13] And she started talking to me about how her grandchild was experiencing a lot of anxiety and all the reasons. And I ended up with that grandchild as a client.

[00:45:21] Judith: Oh, see, I’ll talk to the humans.

[00:45:24] Ashley: Not about you because they need us.

[00:45:27] Judith: Yeah, they need

[00:45:29] Ashley: coaches. So it’s just a matter of talking to everyone. I love this so much.

[00:45:33] So if you, I mean, we could pull this apart so much. I feel like we’ve gotten a lot of detail on you went your year without making anything. Then you ultimately got your 10 first clients. Then you started your group program after 19. Did you say after 19 clients, you started

[00:45:48] Judith: I want to hit 19 one on ones. I had 19 one on ones at the same time.

[00:45:52] Let me clarify. That’s a lot. And I was still working full time as a managing partner in my law firm. So it’s, it’s, I, y’all don’t do [00:46:00] that. Don’t do that. Were you meeting

[00:46:02] Ashley: with them on a weekly

[00:46:03] Judith: basis? Yes. So what I was doing is I had some clients in different countries. So I would meet like at 4am. Then I would work all day.

[00:46:11] Okay. And then I had a rule, like at least two hours an evening on coaching. And when I had no clients, I would spend that on, you know, podcasting or whatever. When I had clients, it was just coaching in the evening. And then all day Saturday was spent on my coaching business. Most of which was client calls.

[00:46:26] I don’t recommend this. I genuinely love you all and I please don’t ever do this to yourself, find out what your spot is. For some of you, it might be 10. For some of you, it might be five. You’re maxed out, especially if you’re working a full time job still and make your transition to small groups, whatever it takes, but I don’t recommend 19 all at the same time and having a full time job.

[00:46:49] Ashley: And did you have people on the wait list then? So you knew when those 19 dropped off, you would have people coming in.

[00:46:55] Judith: We didn’t start the wait. Yeah, no, actually we did. We had a waitlist around that time. I [00:47:00] don’t feel like I’ve ever learned successfully how to leverage a waitlist. I’m going to be totally honest.

[00:47:03] So we have waitlists for one on one. I have about like 30 on my waitlist for one on one. For our programs at any given time, we’ve had anywhere from 30 to 100 people on a waitlist for the eight week program. I, that’s something I still have to learn and work on. How do I leverage a waitlist? Now we’re removing the waitlist option and we’re going to a different methodology just because I have found that it has not worked for me.

[00:47:26] You guys get to play with it and figure out if it

[00:47:28] Ashley: works for you. I think that’s so interesting. How have you kept your pipeline full then? So you have the podcast, there’s people coming from the podcast, you’re continuing to get out and meet people, speak at things. What else are you doing?

[00:47:38] Judith: I guest appear on a lot of podcasts.

[00:47:41] Guests teach a lot and we do run teeny tiny Facebook ads. So it’s very small, but they’re for lead generation purposes. So we play with our freebies probably once a quarter. We’re the current freebie we’re playing with right now is a webinar. Prior to that, we did a personalized [00:48:00] Spotify playlist. It was a curated playlist of podcast episodes about how to define your personal style.

[00:48:05] But because I have a podcast catalog, it ended up being a really great freebie. So, yes.

[00:48:10] Ashley: So you get people on the email list and then that’s who you’re making your offers over and over to. So it keeps that pipeline full. This is so good. I love that you said that about the Facebook ad spend because I think we hear often if you don’t have 10, 000 a month to spend on ads, don’t even bother.

[00:48:27] Judith: That has not been my experience. I’ve also had really great freebies. So my might not be, you know, the best example, but we had a freebie. Bye bye janky undies. And it was just like a diagnostic checklist with my favorite bra recommendations. And that was getting like dollar 65 costs per lead with a click through rate of like 6%.

[00:48:47] If you know anything about ads, that will make sense. If you don’t, it’s okay. Don’t feel bad. I had to create note cards of all the ad terms and learn them. So I could talk to my ad people and not sound like an idiot. So I love hearing how

[00:48:58] Ashley: you learn this. This is really [00:49:00] fascinating to me. So I’ve always used the strategy of spending.

[00:49:02] I spend. I’m not right now at the moment, but I spend five bucks a day on Facebook ads to test between three different lead magnets. And then when I find the winner, it’s usually I try to keep it around under 2 per lead. And that’s how I build out my email list. That’s always, especially if I’m moving into a new niche or a new.

[00:49:20] Like if I have a new program or any of that, then I test the lead magnet that way. And I found it to be a really successful strategy. It’s just not something we hear about very often. Yeah.

[00:49:29] Judith: I’m not spending, I don’t have 40, 000 a month to spend on ads. You spend at max when we’re in a, like a launch cycle, 25 a day.

[00:49:37] We do not have a giant ad spend y’all. And I’ve never needed one. No. Or do I want one? I have no desire to enter into that world. If you have that money and you can protect your cashflow and still do that, you do you. My goal has always been to protect profit, to protect cashflow, to make sure I can pay my lovely, amazing, you know, support staff very well and give them bonuses at the end of the year.

[00:49:59] That’s [00:50:00] important to me. So I don’t fuck around with 40, 000 ad spent. Maybe I will one someday.

[00:50:04] Ashley: Maybe But right now, maybe not now, I think that’s really fascinating to hear that you can be successful and you know, I’m never using it. I haven’t used it to convert into my programs. I use it to build out my email list because that’s kind of my like long term strategy for keeping my pipeline full.

[00:50:23] So I think that’s really great information. This is also useful. So let me ask you my favorite question during the show. If you were to start over. You have a thousand dollars, you know, you don’t have to worry about like paying for your mortgage or your food or any of that’s all taken care of. So you just have a thousand dollars to spend on building your business.

[00:50:41] What do you do?

[00:50:44] Judith: I do a lot of the same shit I did. This is kind of interesting. Yeah. This is a good question

[00:50:49] Ashley: then.

[00:50:50] Judith: Yeah. I would pay for the software stuff that I pay for now. Which is what? So we pay for the software we use for personal styling [00:51:00] services. Like I was giving, dropping links, like in a Google sheet back in the day.

[00:51:05] Hella hood. We don’t do that now. We curate beautiful personal shopping sites for each of our clients. So that would be number one that would still happen. I pay for Zoom with webinars. Like all the little like acuity, stripe, all that shit. Get that shit set up. It has to get set up. So suck it up buttercup.

[00:51:22] I paid for a podcast guy sooner than I did. I edited my own podcast for two years before I finally got a podcast guy. That was stupid. Don’t do that. Julian is the shit, by the way, my podcast guy. I know

[00:51:33] Ashley: I have his number. I’m like, or his email. I’m going to, I’m going to call him in a

[00:51:37] Judith: minute. He’s amazing.

[00:51:39] Like that, those things I would pay for, but I would try to keep, it’s still a lean green machine. If I only had thousand dollars, let’s say cashflow and a thousand dollars to spend to get started. I would make sure to keep my overhead at least like 200 or less. That way I’d have like a five month roadmap to get more money in the bank.

[00:51:58] And that’s, I don’t know that I [00:52:00] would even do Facebook ads. I would see if I could send out a fuck ton of emails to get on people’s podcasts. I would probably figure out if there’s a way I could guest teach for someone for free or do a swap if they were open. I’m not a huge fan of going into people’s Facebook groups and helping and serving.

[00:52:14] I don’t particularly care for that. It’s you do you. And I would

[00:52:18] Ashley: go meet humans. This is so good. And this is really, I mean, I feel like a lot of the answers have been very similar and. Where it’s like I would go where my people are already gathered. And I would offer value. So yes, the Facebook groups have come up, but with a really specific strategy where you’re not competing with the group owners, so you’re collaborating with permission, right?

[00:52:41] So you’re same, like where you’re saying, I would go ask if I could teach to someone with that strategy, but going to where your humans are already gathered and working with the individual who has them gathered. To provide value. So you said that with podcasts, right? You would go on a bunch of podcasts and then you’d make an offer at the end, as far as like, [00:53:00] go grab my freebie.

[00:53:01] Get on my email list.

[00:53:02] Judith: Yep. Go grab my freebie, get on my email list and then nurture the fuck out of them on my email. It’s in the CRM is, you know, client, you know, email system would be one of the things I’m paying for. That would make sense for my business. Right. I wouldn’t recommend starting out with a free version because you get into bad habits.

[00:53:17] Like working around the free versions restrictions, just pay for the damn thing. Like, when do you pay for, so I moved to convert kit when MailChimp crashed on us during a

[00:53:28] Ashley: lunch. Yes. MailChimp is one of the free ones. And I used to, you know, I’ve been in online marketing for about 17 years and I, for 17 years.

[00:53:39] I mean, people love MailChimp, but when people were doing MailChimp just so they could have the free version, I would let them know, once you hit 500 people, you’re going to get yourself into trouble because then it suddenly gets really expensive. And it’s really difficult to move your entire list to another one.

[00:53:53] Cause then you have to do this, the opt in again, you have to have everybody opt back in. So it was like back [00:54:00] then it was like a Weber or MailChimp. Right. And a Weber was 19 a month. And people were like, Whoa, I can’t pay 19 a month. So I’ll just do MailChimp. And it, uh, people If they were planning on building their business past 500 people on an email list, it always got them into trouble.

[00:54:16] So yeah,

[00:54:16] Judith: that’s like a crash on us during a launch and the person that couldn’t help us because we had custom API keys and because we did all of our own tech and you would have to have this intelligent conversation. The person literally could not help me. So we had to migrate. This is mid launch y’all.

[00:54:31] I mean, literally we’re in the middle of a launch. We had to migrate 6, 000 emails, like 6, 000 subscribers over to convert kit. And all the emails for the launch, every email sequence, every automation had to be moved over in a weekend. Like God, God bless her. Cause she and I work. I was like, you hit up that email list.

[00:54:52] I’ll hit up this one. We’ll figure it out. Like. I was supposed to be on a date with my husband. I was like, sorry, he’s like, I can’t deal with you like this [00:55:00] anyway. Let’s take you home. Like, so

[00:55:03] Ashley: he did not have a date that weekend. God bless

[00:55:05] Judith: Pookie. Pookie is very patient. So friends just pay for the stuff.

[00:55:10] Don’t get in the bad habit of trying to do the work arounds of the free thing. For some things, it’s really worth it to get something solid pay for the first year plan, but

[00:55:18] Ashley: hey, yeah. And then it’s easier to upgrade to another tier. But you’re already in the system. So I love convert kit. That’s one of the ones I always recommend.

[00:55:26] And you can stay, you can start that one for free, but what you get from the first year, which is only like 9 a month or something, it’s absolutely affordable and you know, I use Kajabi, which. Is really expensive. It does a lot, but their email isn’t great. So it doesn’t do a lot of things. Well, though,

[00:55:46] Judith: yeah.

[00:55:46] And I love Kajabi. We use them too. There’s things they do like better than anybody else. And there are certain funky things that I’m just like, go pay for an email

[00:55:53] Ashley: provider. I love that, that you pulled to, even though Kajabi is, you know, kind of the all in one. Re [00:56:00] answer, you still use things from other platforms.

[00:56:03] So that’s really good information. I love your answer for what, how you would start over. You’re like, I would do the exact same thing I’m doing. So one of the questions I wanted to ask you is if you could go back and talk to Judith, just starting out, what would

[00:56:17] Judith: you say? I tell her to calm the hell down.

[00:56:22] Like, like, like, really calm down. I would tell her to stop setting these really strange goals that are not tied to actual numbers. So I would tell myself like, Oh, I would love to have a thousand people on a webinar. Okay. But let’s reverse engineer how that would actually look. You would need, right? Like if we had a 30 percent show up rate, then you would actually need 3000 people to opt into the webinar and register for it.

[00:56:51] Okay. So assuming only 2 percent of your email is actually ever. You know, clicks and registers for things. Then you [00:57:00] would need like 60, 000 fucking people on your email list. So you could have 30, 3000 people register. So you could have a thousand people on the webinar. Think

[00:57:08] Ashley: it through love. It doesn’t make sense.

[00:57:11] You have eight people on your email list, right? That’s going to make

[00:57:15] Judith: it difficult. Sethi is really, because we’re maybe in a coaching culture. There’s, there’s a proponent of that, you know, is a proponent of goals that are a stretch. I’m just going to

[00:57:32] Ashley: call it

[00:57:33] Judith: that. Audacious. Goals. Yep. Right. But they’re not grounded in reality.

[00:57:37] Yeah. And I do. I think we always have to have things be plausible or possible. I didn’t want to go there necessarily. But when you’re first starting out, numbers do matter friends. And you have to think those things through when you’re goal setting. So you’re not setting yourself up for this horrible disappointment because you were not [00:58:00] realistic with what.

[00:58:01] Could be achieved with the resources that you have at hand when you’re first starting out. And you’re doing yourself a huge disservice to say you want, you know, a thousand people in a membership when you have an email list of five and an Instagram, you know, follower count of a hundred. That’s not fair to yourself.

[00:58:20] It’s super not fair.

[00:58:21] Ashley: It’s definitely messes with your nervous system. Yeah. And then you get squeaky and yeah, And

[00:58:27] Judith: weird and then you get desperate and then, Yeah. And I say this from, I’ve been there. I’m not saying it from a place of like a hierarchy or I’m on a high horse. I say it from a place of total love for you.

[00:58:38] And please don’t do what I did and set myself up for a lot of disappointment

[00:58:42] Ashley: and turmoil. Yeah. And I absolutely see the point of having these huge goals, but when you recognize, Oh, this is wreaking havoc on me, then it’s time to reassess. Like, is like, what’s even the point of doing this? Why would I have these crazy goals?

[00:58:57] Why, you know, and if it’s because, okay, well, that’s going to [00:59:00] motivate me and that’s going to drive me, then that’s one thing. But if it’s like, this is crushing me, then like I am remaining in inaction because of these goals, it is not. It’s not it.

[00:59:13] Judith: It’s not it. It’s like I tell my clients who have gold clothing in their closet.

[00:59:18] You know, I, a pair of jeans that are two sizes small is supposed to motivate me. No, it’s actually shaming you. It’s not motivating you. It’s the exact opposite of what the intention is. And while the intention is lofty, that’s not how we actually motivate ourselves. That’s not how human motivation works.

[00:59:33] So you all have your own proverbial shame piles. In your business’s closet of, you’re setting these really weird goals that are not really based in reality, you know, expecting these things of yourself while you’re working a full time job and you have children and fur babies and a life, like, let’s factor in the real you, just like I tell you to dress the you that exists right now, I want you to, Love on the business you have right now and then you can grow or [01:00:00] change

[01:00:00] Ashley: it or I’m hearing your advice come through and it’s so reflective of the advice that you’ve given me Personally before about loving the body that I have and I’m like, this is beautiful So friends listening if this is like the only part you take away It’s this like love the business that you have right now And through that, rather than through shame, you can grow it into meeting your huge goals, but love what it is right now.

[01:00:30] And that’s such beautiful advice. Tell me if you have, and in just a second, I’m going to ask you about your current offers, but tell me if you have anything else to add any other advice for our

[01:00:37] Judith: listeners. Turn off the inputs sooner rather than later. So I waited too long to stop following and stop listening to people I deeply admire who are really amazing, but the comparison was so bad and I wasn’t being honest with myself that the comparison was happening.

[01:00:57] I was couching at it. I’m learning from them. I’m [01:01:00] seeing how other people do it. I’m just getting references and it wasn’t until I started like, Okay. Slowly like off, off, mute, delete, unsubscribe. And I felt a lightness and I was like, Oh, Judy. Oh, Judy, we could have done this so much sooner. So friends, if any of you are getting an inkling that it might be time to unsubscribe, delete, turn off, unfollow, just mute for now.

[01:01:27] There’s no shame in that, but don’t kid yourself that it’s like reference or you’re learning. That’s not what’s actually happening internally for you. They’ll never know. They won’t notice love. And you’ll do yourself such a favor to find out like what your clients actually need and want from you versus what you’re seeing being done already.

[01:01:47] I love this.

[01:01:48] Ashley: And it’s, it has nothing to do with what you think of that person, but it’s radical self honesty about how does it. Affect me when I’m consuming this information. [01:02:00] That’s so good. Well, you have provided so much valuable information today. I am so appreciative of it. I just want to ask you, how can, what’s your current offer?

[01:02:09] What are you offering right now? And how can our audience find you?

[01:02:13] Judith: Style Masterclass is opening. Okay. It’s my eight week program to help you solidify your wardrobe, get you dressed and ready and out the door. And less time spending less money and that opened September 27th. So we are kicking it off with a free class, how to put together polished outfits in under 10 minutes or less.

[01:02:34] And I can give Ashley all of the links and all the good stuff for that. So if you want to join us, we’ll talk about how to join style masterclass during that free live class.

[01:02:43] Ashley: Oh, I love it. I will be at that free live class. I’m so excited. So thank you so much. So all of those links will be down below, including how you can come join my online marketing community and go to marketingforlifecoaches.

[01:02:57] com. And if you’re watching this on YouTube [01:03:00] right now, say hi, if you have not already, and just like. The video and subscribe to the channel that just helps us reach more people. If you’re listening to this on a podcasting app, then please take a second to leave a review for both Judith and I, and we will see you either in the group at Judith’s class or on one of the calls that you can get on by going to talkwithashley.

[01:03:24] com, where we can talk about your business and your marketing strategy, and I cannot wait to see and meet you, Judith. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. Bye, everyone. Bye.

[01:03:36] Thanks for listening to another episode of the High Earning Coaches podcast. Subscribe to the show and never miss another episode. I’d love to stay connected, so make sure to connect with me, ashleyjangro, on Instagram.